CHAPTER 10

Sex is Painful to the Body


Obviously, our relationships are not so loving. So we want to, somehow, make them into loving affairs, loving relationships. What an amount of energy we are putting into making our relationship into a loving thing! It is a battle, it is a war. It is like preparing yourself all the time for war hoping that there will be peace, eternal peace, or this or that. You are tired of this battle, and you even settle for that horrible, non- loving relationship.

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When once love fails to establish the perfectly ideal relationship between two individuals, what we are left with is hate. If not hate, it is antipathy.

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Sexuality, if it is left to itself, as it is in the case of other species, other forms of life, is merely a biological need, because the living organism has this object to survive and produce one like itself. Anything you superimpose on that is totally unrelated to the living organism. But we have turned that, what you call sexual activity, which is biological in its nature, into a pleasure movement.

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Whether you are here, in Russia, or anywhere else, the one thing that anybody and everybody wants in this world is to have happiness without one moment of unhappiness, pleasure without pain. That is just not possible, because this living organism does not know what pleasure is, what happiness is.

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You are not in living touch with anything.

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Q: I wanted to ask you about love.

A: Oh, my God! Oh, my God! (Laughs)

Q: I know what people say about love.

A: What do you think about it?

Q: I don't know.

A: I don't know either.

Q: Is there another....?

A: There must be two, you know. I love somebody and somebody else loves me. Wherever there is division, there can't be love. We are trying to bridge this gap, which is horrible for us, which has no meaning, which is demanding something from us, with this fancy idea that there must be love between these two individuals.

Q: Between whatever....?

A: Between whatever -- I love my country, I love my dog, I love my wife, and what else. What is the difference -- whether I love my wife, love my country, or I love my dog. (Both laugh) This may sound very cynical to you. The fact of the matter is that there is no difference. You love your country, I love my country, and there is war.

Q: So, there is no love? Love is another of these thoughts?

A: Yes, created by thought.

Q: Can the body not love?

A: It does not love itself. There is no separateness here.

Q: Is that all there is to love?

A: You want me to give a positive answer to your question. I am not trying to evade. This is not a political interview. I am not dodging. I don't want to give any clever or diplomatic answer. Why are we asking about love?

Q: Well, human beings ask about that....

A: Obviously, our relationships are not so loving. So we want to, somehow, make them into loving affairs, loving relationships.

Q: So it makes us feel that....

A: What an amount of energy we are putting into making our relationship into a loving thing! It is a battle, it is a war. It is like preparing yourself all the time for war hoping that there will be peace, eternal peace, or this or that. You are tired of this battle, and you even settle for that horrible, non-loving relationship. And you hope and dream one day it will be nothing but love. "Love thy neighbor as thyself--" in the name of that how many millions of people have been killed? More than all the recent wars put together. How can you love thy neighbor as thyself? It is just not possible.

Q: Do you think it is impossible for any human being?

A: Obviously; otherwise, why are so many people, women, children, and helpless people killed?

Q: No. But there are also good neighbors you know.

A: Yes, yes, you know. (Both laugh) When once love fails to establish the perfectly ideal relationship between two individuals what we are left with is hate. If not hate, it is antipathy, apathy, or what other words....? My vocabulary is very poor.

Q: That is good enough.... What about sexuality? Is that just a reproductive function or does it help some other meaningful....?

A: Sexuality, if it is left to itself, as it is in the case of other species, other forms of life, is merely a biological need, because the living organism has this object to survive and produce one like itself. Anything you superimpose on that is totally unrelated to the living organism. But we have turned that, what you call sexual activity, which is biological in its nature, into a pleasure movement. I am not saying anything against the pleasure movement. It has become possible for us to have sex at any time we want through the help of thought.

Q: So, that is one of the ways thought has separated us from the rest of the world?

A: Then it is a bore again. We have to write books -- the Joy of Loving, the Kama Sutras, and all kinds of books -- and make it interesting. It is not possible for animals to have sex at any time they want. Animals use it only for reproduction. Not that they 'use' it, but it is for the purposes of reproducing their own species. It is not a pleasure movement in their case. I am not saying anything against the pleasure movement. I am not interested in saying that you should condemn that or become promiscuous or use sex as a means of spiritual attainment. No.

Q: So, you say sex cannot be a spiritual experience?

A: It is a very simple functioning of the living organism. ` The religious man has turned that into something big, and concentrated on the control of sex. After that the psychologists have turned that into something extraordinary. All commercialism is related to sex. How do you think it will fall into its proper place?

Q: It is used to sell....

A: Yes, sure, I am not against that. Please don't get me wrong. I am just pointing out the use to which we are putting that simple biological function. I am not condemning it. It is there, you see. Your talk of that as an expression of love has no meaning to me.

Q: Then there is no relationship between love and sex?

A: No.

Q: That is really devastating! Most of the world for sure thinks that love without sex is like a cold hand- shake.

A: We would love to put it that way because it is very comforting. If sex is used only for the biological purpose, as I said, it is not really a devastating situation. If you leave it as it is, it wouldn't be so horrible, the way you would like to put it. It would fall into its proper place. That is why we have invented all these other things -- God, truth, and reality -- which are nothing but ultimate pleasures.

Q: Is that a goal too?

A: Whether you are here, in Russia, or anywhere else, the one thing that anybody and everybody want in this world is to have happiness without one moment of unhappiness, pleasure without pain. That is just not possible, because this living organism does not know what pleasure is, what happiness is.

Q: The organism does not know what pleasure is?

A: It doesn't even want it.

Q: It wants but it hasn't....

A: It doesn't want it, because all these pleasurable sensations disturb it. The moment there is a pleasurable sensation, the demand to extend it longer and longer is there. That is why there is this tremendous frustration there. You want to make it possible for everybody that he should always be happy and that he should have only pleasant or pleasurable sensations and not any painful ones. It may be possible through some drugs like 'ecstasy', but for how long?

Q: What happens if you indulge in such things?

A: In the long run it destroys the sensitivity of the body.

Q: How do you say that?

A: You are not in living touch with anything there.

Q: ....so thought is separating us from the natural way?

A: Yes, the natural way.

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